KZR’s Interview

What are some of the defining moments in your career that have shaped your leadership style?

Beliefs

Your question reminds me of a saying, “It’s not what happens to you, but what you do with what happens, that matters.” Our early childhood experiences form our individual beliefs and paradigms that determine how we see the world and interpret our unique experiences. Therefore, before describing the defining moments in my career, I would like to reflect on some of my pre-career events.

Mother’s Influence

My mother has had a tremendous influence in my early life. I learned the value of commitment, sacrifice, determination, and the importance of challenging the status quo. My siblings and I received plenty of love and attention, even though at the time my mom was struggling in a bad marriage and seeking a divorce. She protected us from the trauma of a disturbed home life and went out of her way to give us a good life – a life of plenty, even though she had very limited means. She believed in us and in our infinite potential.

She kept custody of her children and re-married in 1969. Our family was complete again. Both my mother and father (I cannot say “stepfather,” as he has been more than a father to us) went on to provide us access to the good education and a healthy family and social life. Through their constant guidance, love, and strictness, we acquired a good education, developed a sound character, and engaged socially with the larger family and their circle of friends.

Even though I was very shy right into my teens, I later developed self-confidence. During my very early childhood, my father then worked for PIA (Pakistan’s national carrier). He got posted to different stations abroad and within the country. As a result of his movements, I had changed eleven schools in five different cities, till I reached high school! In an uncanny way, attending new schools helped me in later life. I was able to easily adapt to different people and situations.

Move to the UK

We moved as a family to London in 1972. At the time, I was in my mid-teens. Here I was, in a new land. I got my first real taste of what can best be described as a civil society. In England, I experienced respect for human beings, respect for the rule of law, waiting your turn in queues, and attending to personal chores like washing dishes, making your own bed, polishing your own shoes… There was dignity in labor!

My first job

I started my career as a management trainee in an international bank, Abu Dhabi in Feb 1976. After a year away from home, I returned to London in 1977 and continued with the same employer. Here, I came across the towering personality of Late Agha Hasan Abedi – a man of vision. His outlook on life and his inspiring management philosophy has left an indelible mark on me.

Transformative Training Program

In 1981, my dad introduced me to a Dale Carnegie course on Effective Speaking and Human Relations. I was reluctant at first, but he convinced me to take part in it by focusing my attention to the fact the course was being held at the Waldorf, in Strand, a 5-star hotel; there would be an array of refreshments; and I might also get to meet interesting people! I agreed. Thank God I did, as it changed my life forever.

There I was on day 1 of the course, among 30 participants, all Anglo-Saxon whites, and I, the only South Asian. The room was laid out theatre style with an aisle running through the middle. I had taken a back seat, thinking that I will listen to lectures, and then escape when break time came. This was not to be!

Eddie Roads was taking the class. Soon after making his welcome remarks and introducing the program, he announced that every one of us will get an opportunity to speak for one minute on the topic: “The Happiest Day in My Life.” This was it! I wanted to run. I turned to the exit and found two Dale Carnegie volunteers positioned next to the door. I didn’t have the courage to face them. There was no way out!

My heart started beating louder… I wondered when my turn would come. And about 15 minutes later, Eddie called out my name, “Kamran…!” I almost died!! But got up and nervously walked to the front of the class. I faced the audience, with my eyes rolling in all directions, my mouth dry… heart pumping… knees shaking. I would have wet my pants if my bladder was weak! I wanted to hide! My mind was whizzing with random thoughts. I don’t recall what I narrated clumsily, but whatever it was, it must have been okay… Eddie was most encouraging as he debriefed my talk, like he had done for others before me. I felt utter relief as I returned to my chair.

Impact of Training

That same night, I remember passionately sharing my experience of the course with my parents, wife, brother, and sisters who listened to me intently! I couldn’t stop talking!

From this day on (1981), my life took a positive turn. I had developed a positive mental attitude. My newfound confidence and skills helped me in my personal and professional life as I was better at managing relationships through effective communication. I started conducting meetings and happily volunteered to lead improvement projects at the bank.

Evolution of Leadership

Now I come to the defining moments in my career that have shaped my leadership style. My learnings come mostly through mentors, prominent among them being my dad, from whom I have learned the value of patience, empathy and active listening.

It is the decisions you take in each set of circumstances that helps you discover your values, which ultimately reflects in your day-to-day choices and behaviors.

1976 to 1990 were unrepeatable years of my life, which exposed me to the innovative thinking and unique management philosophy of Late Agha Hasan Abedi, founding chairman of BCCI, a well-known international bank, with a significant presence in 72 countries, that was ultimately shut down at the directions of the Federal Reserve Bank (US central bank) in July 1991. Late Mr. Abedi’s philosophy fueled my idealism. My years in BCCI taught me to think big, to live a grand vision, to believe in the art of the possible, to be passionate about serving humanity, and to become a giver – a giver of the gifts we all are blessed with – whether it is skills, insights, money, appreciation, encouragement, attention, or simply, just a smile.

In 1985, while performing Hajj, I realized the strangle-hold of vanity on me. I was able to overcome this disease and regained my honest relationship with God when I finally decided to have my head shaved.

Even though I performed Hajj in 1985, I found God in 1987 in Glasgow!? I was in a state of extreme despair when faced with upcoming MBA exams at the University of Strathclyde Business School. There was no way I could see myself clearing the exams that were due in a month. Pressure was mounting. In this darkest hour of my life, I found hope and enlightenment when I turned to God. God listened to me. I felt His presence. My faith in Him has been unswerving since then.

Resigning in June 1990 after serving BCCI for fourteen years was a huge step for me to take, particularly since I had no idea what I would do next! At the time, I was head of training in the UK for six months. The bank was going through turmoil caused by the global controversy following the 1987 Miami Scandal that was fanned by the media (electronic and print) worldwide.

At the time (1987), there were around 14,000 employees in the bank, made up of ninety-eight nationalities, working in 72 countries in the world. I would have continued with the bank, so long as I could see that there was at least one senior executive at the helm, who cared for and lived by the banks’ values.

Top leadership had been shaken out by regulators in London and elsewhere. In the hands of liquidators, the bank had virtually become a headless chicken. Newly formed, faceless committees and auditors were making rash decisions daily, which were contrary to the organization’s values I had grown up with.

I’ve always held that my ultimate loyalty lies with values and principles that are eternal and ever-present. No single organization can claim a monopoly on values. I had faith that as long as I remain true to principles, I held dear, I will never starve. This belief gave me the courage to take the big step of leaving a secure job and stepping into the unknown.

My first real personal and ethical challenge came three years after founding KZR in 1991 in Pakistan. By 1994 KZR had attained an impressive profile in the market with four top trainers and consultants. We looked unbeatable in the Pakistan market. However, the behavior of two of the lead trainers was not aligned with KZR’s values. It would have been convenient for me to compromise by ignoring this internal discrepancy and carry on with ‘business-as-usual.’ Instead, I ensured that they resigned, despite the risk of adverse market perception this would create. Thankfully, we survived and have grown since! This decision set a precedent that will hopefully endure in all the organizations that KZR has spawned at the start of the 21st century. Navitus (now Carnelian) and School of Leadership (SoL) are glowing examples of KZR’s legacy today.

Nations, communities, families, and organizations get into trouble when they are at the mercy of megalomaniacs. I favor principles over personality as it ensures congruence, continuity, and consistency through shared decision-making and wider ownership of processes.

The training and development industry is crowded with examples of self-projection. It’s an industry dominated by big names like Stephen Covey, Dale Carnegie, Tom Peters, Deepak Chopra, and the like. Despite this trend, I have preferred to be in the company of stars, by being a star amongst stars. This reflects a thought, “Be outstanding, but don’t stand out?” I cherish this adage to this day.

In June 1999, I was able to see my long-held belief in teamwork, institutionalization, and succession play out. Two SBUs were created – one for our work with non-profits, headed by my brother, Imran Rizvi and the other for the corporates. I had consulted with my team and decided that KZR’s corporate division had to be led and managed by someone other than myself from Jan 2000 onwards. A formal succession process began in earnest.

KZR’s Growth Strategy (PPO)

My vision was to ultimately transform KZR (founded in Jun 1991) from a family run partnership into firms that were professionally led, autonomous organizations, serving different market segments, each having their own strategic focus, with dedicated teams comprising of competent and sincere individuals.

To this end, a strategy for growth was developed called PPO (Perpetually Pregnant Organization). As a result, KZR spawned various organizations and has also built informal associations with many others upon entering the 21st century. The organizations that have come in its place are well established and are making a positive impact in their respective domains, with our mission of developing the human factor embedded in the culture.

Chronology of “PPO”

By the start of 1999, KZR – a partnership at the time between two brothers, had created two verticals for greater strategic focus, one for the development sector (KZR DD), headed by my brother, Imran Rizvi, and the other for the corporate sector and youth leadership (KZR CD), led by me. Each vertical had dedicated teams with different policies and strategic priorities, including compensation.
In Dec of 1999, in KZR CD’s first formal quarterly meeting, we selected a young person, who had been with our organization for only two years, with no previous work experience. She emerged as KZR CD’s first business head. Merit in an individual was seen as the ability to learn, take responsibility, sincerity to the cause and adherence to agreed principles. Commitment and competence guided people decisions, and not just age and experience.

In 2002, School of Leadership (SoL) was founded, and was led by Shireen Naqvi. SoL took over KZR’s work with youth, in schools, colleges and universities.
Mission: Cultivate Distinction

In April 2004, KZR CD business was moved to a newly created entity, Navitus, a private limited co, with four directors, including me, each having 25% Class A shares.
Mission: Elevate the Human Spirit
p.s. Navitus was rebranded as Carnelian in August 2014
Mission: Convey Meaning, Create Significance

School of Leadership Foundation (SoLF) was established, in 2005 to act as a local partner to ICLS (Intercultural Communication and Leadership School) headquartered in Rome. SoLF’s focus is to work on community leadership addressing various SDG themes.
Mission: Growing Human Capital

Around the same time, I encouraged my brother, Imran Rizvi, who was heading KZR DD, to set up his own firm. In 2006 he founded RIZ Consulting, and it continues with KZR’s legacy from 1993, to date.
Mission: Developing the Human Factor

Moved to Canada in Jan 2006 to start a new life.
There are a few other defining moments in my life that I remembered while reviewing the ones above.

p.s. Returned to Pakistan in Jan 2008, and have been based in Islamabad since then.

Elements of Leadership
This exercise has helped me decipher my own leadership style summarized below:

• Principle centered
• Firm and fair
• Participative
• Assertive
• Visionary
• Inspiring
• Team-oriented
• Meritocratic

P.S. I think my colleagues and members of my family would have a better say in the matter.


Leaders are born and made! As I see it, everyone living on earth is both a leader and a follower – at the very same time, from the moment they acquire consciousness and start taking responsibility for the outcomes they create in life. The reason I say “everyone” is because, as human beings, we are all accountable for our deeds and possess the ability (potential or actual) to influence others.

How effective each person is as a leader, and a follower is another matter! For this reason, leadership development is essential. However, leadership cannot be taught in the classroom only. Just like you teach a person to swim in water, leadership lives in action and needs to be practiced in the community, within families, and at work.

How do you lead in a crisis?

Faith & Clarity of Values

Crisis could be described as a dangerous or a worrying time. It’s a situation or period in which things are very uncertain, difficult, or painful, especially a time when action must be taken to avoid a complete disaster or breakdown. I see some of the defining moments in my life as challenges, instead of a crisis.  With God’s help, I have lived through quite a few, and each difficulty has opened a new world for me. I think what has helped me through each testing situation was my presence of mind, which came from faith and clarity of values.

Dealing with Ambiguity

Over the years, I have developed to some extent, the ability to deal with ambiguity and situations that appear to be a crisis, in a more considered and calmer fashion. If a situation permits, and it often does, I step back and think through the implications of what is happening; who all are likely to be affected; what are the possible courses of action open to me; and what their consequences are likely to be. With practice, such considerations can be processed in the mind in a matter of minutes.

Perspective

I have come to realize that we often tend to create a crisis by magnifying an event beyond all proportions. In this regard, I recall having lost my cool on a few occasions. Thanks to some of my team members, who saved the day by relying on their strength, removing me from the situation, and taking charge of it, to help bring order to chaos. 

Survival Instincts

Of course, there are exceptional situations where a crisis would warrant a spontaneous response. In such a case, our survival instincts kick in – fight, flight or freeze. Hence fighter pilots are trained on simulators to undergo extreme situations and maneuvers repeatedly to heighten their nanosecond intuitive response capability.

In most business or social contexts, it is essential to stay calm and keep things in perspective before rushing into action. Only a relaxed mind functions optimally.

The value of a ship’s captain is not when the weather is pleasant, and the sky is clear. A captain rises to the occasion when the storm rages and visibility is reduced to yards!

What skills do young people need to develop today to become effective leaders tomorrow?

I see youth as an attitude. Age is only a number. Whether a person is 18 years of age or much older, he or she will excel in life with a clear sense of direction, patience, greater awareness of self and others, and a good sense of the opportunities and threats that exist in the local, regional, and global environment.

Young people tend to be very energetic, full of idealism, and ambition. They often are often self-centered, unless exposed to learning experiences that build empathy, cooperation and teamwork. They can also be rather impatient. Media has played a major role in shaping the values of our youth around consumerism and quick fixes, e.g., “Buy now, pay later,” and the MTV culture fueling short attention spans and hyperactivity.

The good news is that young adults respond positively to developmental activities that combine fun with learning and which they see as relevant. By far the best way to help young people learn about leadership/followership skills is through team sports. Games like basketball, hockey or cricket, if framed appropriately, can provide deep insights and help young people develop skills in the following areas:

1. Confidence in self and others
2. Interdependence
3. Flexibility in thinking
4. Strategy and tactics
5. Taking the lead when needed
6. Followership
7. Resolving conflicts
8. Sharing in success
9. Taking responsibility
10. Influencing
11. Focus on common goals
12. Thinking win/win
13. Playing on strengths
14. Esprit de corps
15. Agility

Skills, like the ones mentioned above, when combined with requisite technical/functional knowledge and skills in areas like engineering, medicine, economics, environment, coding etc., prepare young people to embark on successful careers and business ventures.

Other learning avenues for young leaders are conferences like YLC (Young Leaders’ Conference), a well-known annual program run by SoL (www.sol.edu.pk) for youth. In addition, management seminars and other short skill-building courses like project management, proposal writing, presentation, and communication skills help immensely.

By attending conferences, conventions, seminars, and workshops, young people can also network to widen their perspective and awareness about themselves and about the world in which they live. Such events are also a great place to find projects in which to volunteer. Through social engagements on the campus, in workplaces and communities our youth can see themselves as interconnected with diverse beings, with whom they may wish to collaborate for a common good.

What is your leadership philosophy?

Leadership is a great responsibility, and it can manifest in our lives as soon as we become aware that, “if it is to be, it is up to me!” Keeping this principle in mind, leaders go about accomplishing great deeds by engaging others, as many as the cause demands.

Leadership is about people and getting the best out of them. This can be done through coaching, mentoring, and through a variety of other models of cooperation and collaboration.

The beauty of leadership is that titles don’t make leaders and leaders don’t need titles. It is not a position, but a set of behaviors we take as individuals that attracts people to what ultimately becomes a shared vision of a project or an organization.

Leadership is as much about followership as it is about providing direction and aligning human energy. Therefore, we will find that great leaders are also great at following others. In other words, leading and following are two sides of the same coin we call ‘leadership.’

I believe that effective leaders are great listeners and talkers. They lead by example and are driven by the need to develop better leaders than themselves and deliberately go about seeking worthy successors who can carry the mission forward.

The mark of a great leader is also the extent to which he/she liberates and empowers others. By sharing power, leaders remain safe from the corrupting influence of power, particularly when it concentrates in a single person.

I learned from Prof. Heifetz of Harvard University that leadership begins by confronting tough realities. Effective leaders see ‘comfort zones’ as enemies to progress. Great leaders will forever seek better and more effective ways to achieve desired goals.

Leaders speak with conviction but keep an open mind. They welcome criticism and remain receptive to guidance and feedback from their constituents and other stakeholders of their enterprise.

In short, leaders need to be credible. This quality reveals itself in time, through many sacrifices a leader makes along the way.

To what extent does innovation influence your competitive advantage?


innovation is at the core of our continuing success. To stand out from the crowd and gain the attention of the audience, it is essential for us to be clearly seen and recognized for what we stand for and deliver. Therefore, understanding who we are, institutionalizing our identity, and communicating our originality is what makes us distinct, visible, and attractive.

When I started out in the field of training and development, I deliberately used a style and language that was unfamiliar to my audience. I was aware that in the early ’90s, training had a bad image in the minds of decision-makers. It was seen as a waste of time by most corporate heads, and they can hardly be blamed for this perception. Trainers in those days were prone to giving lectures, and the process was hardly interactive or engaging. Keeping this in mind, I started using new and unfamiliar words, knowing that this would open new doors in their minds. For example, when phoning a company, after exchanging pleasantries, the person at the other end would ask me, ‘What is “K.Z.R.”?” And I would confidently and clearly say, “It is Kudos, Zeal & Renewal!” On hearing these unusual words, further questioning would often stop, and my call would be put straight through to the decision-maker. However, there were others who dared to ask a follow-up question, “What do you do?” And my reply, “We develop the human factor in organizations!” This, too, would often direct the call to the intended individual.

Similarly, to encourage continuous innovation in our trainings, we follow the ‘loose/tight’ method in all our learning interventions. This means that we remain ‘tight’ (focused) on agreed objectives and deliverables, while staying ‘loose’ (flexible) in the process that leads to the desired outcomes. Therefore, my colleagues in Navitus, SoL, and elsewhere, have evolved their own innovative practices and enjoy their freedom with discipline that the ‘loose/tight’ model provides. 

How can an organization successfully differentiate itself from the competition, and sustain this competitive advantage over time?

This can be done by building a high-performance culture characterized by: 1) Continuous learning; 2) Benchmarking (internal and external); and 3) unleashing the inherent brilliance of people by encouraging them to take risks and learn from their mistakes.

People are very creative and full of ideas of value – if only we listen deeply. By deliberately engaging people in strategic planning sessions, quality improvement programs and cross-functional growth projects, a company can reap untold benefits.

How do you integrate new people into an organization, so they are quickly ‘additive’ to the team, performing beyond an individual level?


Through a well-designed on-boarding program, a warm collective welcome; free sharing of information – an open SWOT (Strengths; Weaknesses; Opportunities; Threats) of the business; connecting the individual to the big picture; and having a clear set of mutual expectations.

A culture that celebrates differences and is focused on high performance goals that are aligned to the corporate vision and mission will help screen new people. Those who join under such conditions are more likely to deliver!

Competitive advantage today is gained through people, innovation, and the ability to change with the needs of a dynamic marketplace. How do you create an innovative culture that welcomes change?

Remove fear of making mistakes from the system. Ensure that learning is taking place with each mistake. See that mistakes are not repeated. Create a learning organization. Dr Peter Senge’s work is of immense value in this regard.

Have the skill sets to be successful as a leader changed over the past few years?

Yes! Leaders today need to be more intuitive, more humane, exceptionally empathetic, and savvy across cultures. In addition, ability to build trusting relationships in a virtual and tech-driven work environment, across borders, is at a premium!

What is the role of HR in today’s organizations?


HR needs to be a strategic partner to the business. From being purely a staff function, HR needs to partner with line managers and facilitate the achievement of agreed deliverables. HR needs to demonstrate how it adds tangible value through its interventions to attract and grow people!

Corporate culture, if it’s conducive, will take care of retaining those whom the business needs. Succession planning and its execution, along with knowledge management, are the key areas where HR can make a real and positive impact in any enterprise.”

In your experience what percentage of executive recruits want to pursue a career as a leader?

I have no percentages in mind. In my view, all executive recruits need to lead and manage in an exemplary fashion!

What trends do you see in terms of leadership?

Intercultural competence, emotional and spiritual intelligence, agility and the ability to deal with ambiguity, are becoming essential, in addition to other classical requirements of leadership.

Why do many companies find it difficult to institutionalize leadership?

Control freaks and micro managers who have difficulty delegating effectively, are barriers to institutionalizing leadership. This often stems from a lack of trust such people have in human capacity to perform independently with minimal supervision.

Ego and insecurity are another obstacle to consider. There are enough examples of people who love to shine in their own glory! A heightened sense of self-importance interrupts wisdom!

Can people be great managers and great leaders, or are they typically different individuals?

Managers do things right, and leaders do the right things. This is a simple definition of both. People need to play both roles. They have capacity for both! However, some may be more oriented to being a manager – good at motivating people and getting the job done, while others may lean more towards leadership – inspiring and developing people to take on greater responsibilities in the system.

Hence, it’s important to play to the strengths of people and deploy them according to their capabilities and orientations.

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